Since the inception of New American Paintings, we have worked almost exclusively with museum curators to select the artists featured in the publication. The few exceptions have been art dealer Ivan Karp, art critic Jerry Saltz, artist Amy Sherald, and philanthropist and art collector Beth Rudin DeWoody. This issue marks our second collaboration with Beth, whose influence and commitment to contemporary art have made her one of the most important collectors of contemporary art over multiple decades.
I have had the pleasure of knowing Beth for a number of years and, in the art dealer sphere of my life, we have worked together on numerous occasions. I have met very few people who are as passionate and knowledgeable about contemporary art. Beth has an insatiable appetite for looking, learning, and acquiring—qualities that have placed her at the apex of international collectors and made her collection one of the most significant repositories of contemporary art in the world. If you are a gallerist, you want to work with Beth; if you are an artist, you want your work in her collection. It is that simple.
In making decisions for this issue of New American Paintings, Beth considered the work of hundreds of artists. Her final selections are diverse and offer a strong overview of many of the prevailing trends shaping the landscape of contemporary painting. Given the volume of visual information Beth absorbs, I was amused—but not surprised—to discover that a number of the applicants
were already on her radar, or in her collection.
The interview that follows was conducted in 2020, during which Beth and I spent close to two hours discussing her life in the arts. I wanted to understand how her journey began, how she sustains her remarkable appetite for contemporary art, and how she manages to seem as though she is everywhere at once.
STEVEN ZEVITAS: Almost without exception, I have found that people with a passion for the arts had strong early exposure. Was that the case for you?
BETH RUDIN DEWOODY: My parents had art at home, but not great art. I went to the Rudolph Steiner School, which placed a heavy emphasis on the arts, so you were always creating there. In every subject, you had to make what they called a “Good Book,” which would have drawings on one side and writing on the other. We learned other forms of making, such as sewing and knitting—we even learned how to make wax candles. And dance was very important. Around age thirteen, I started to take Saturday classes at the Art Student’s League.
SZ: Were you drawing from life? How would you rate your artistic chops?
BRD: I’m not bad. I have always been able to copy, but I don’t have the “creative” gene you need to be able to look at a blank canvas and take it somewhere. I have a strong visual sense and intuitively know how to place things. I am good at photography, and I suppose that skill set has been very useful for my curating projects.
SZ: Were there teachers who made a particular impression on you?
BRD: In high school I attended the Riverdale Country School, where I had a very classical art teacher. Then a young Soho based artist came to teach art history, and he sent us to see Henry Geldzahler’s exhibition New York Painting and Sculpture: 1940–1970 at the Metropolitan Museum. This was a seminal moment for me, really opening up my eyes to what was happening in the contemporary art scene. Also, I took an art class with Benny Andrews at the New School when I was in the eleventh grade. Benny was amazing. The first work I ever acquired was a drawing by him.
SZ: That’s funny . . . I was just talking about Benny’s work with an artist the other day. He is so under-recognized. What year was that? Do you remember what you paid?
BRD: I acquired the work in 1969 for $100. I still have it. Later on, I acquired two paintings of his.
SZ: So you became a collector at seventeen.
BRD: I have always had a collector’s mentality, even when I was young. Before I got interested in art, it was Beatles memorabilia, magazines, and other ephemera that I found interesting. My life as a collector really began in 1975 when I moved to Tribeca with my first husband. We became friendly with a number of artists and art world people. . . . We immersed ourselves in that world.
SZ: What were your collecting interests at that point?
BRD: Mostly prints. We became close with David Kiehl, who went on to become Curator of Prints at the Whitney. He took us around . . .educated us . . . and we bought a lot of American prints and some by English artists like Mary Ryan and Sylvan Cole. Things developed organically. By the early 1980s, my focus had shifted more to painting.
SZ: It must have been an exciting time to live there as the downtown scene
burgeoned.
BRD: It was. I became increasingly involved. There were more and more galleries opening . . . more and more artists . . . and I spent a lot of time running around and seeing as much as I could with friends. My formal involvement with museums started as well, and then in 1985 I joined the board of the Whitney. By that time, I had really begun to voraciously collect. . . . I started going “crazy.”
SZ: Was there a particular focus to your collecting habits then?
BRD: I am a sponge and I am always learning. . . . My interests have always been broad. There is one part of me that is obsessed with emerging artists and with helping to support their careers by buying their work. But I also love the historical side, and I love discovering artists that were overlooked, for whatever reason. I think those impulses continue to this day. Over time, of course, I started to see patterns in the works I was collecting. . . . Certain themes became evident. When those realizations happened, I started curating shows as well.
SZ: For someone who is passionate about supporting emerging artists, you certainly have plenty to consider at this point, and plenty of ways to discover them.
BRD: Yes, the art world has obviously grown substantially since the 1980s. There is a lot to consider.
SZ: I’ve never understood how you do it. Every time that I have ever sent you a PDF of an exhibition, you invariably respond. And I have never been at an art fair that you have not attended.
BRD: I really love taking it all in, and I suppose that I see more than many curators, but it is never tiring. I inevitably receive dozens of exhibition PDFs in a given month, I see a lot of exhibitions, and then there are the art fairs.
SZ: You’ve said that when you enter an art fair a secret message goes out: Beth is in the house. Do you enjoy the fairs?
BRD: I don’t mind the accelerated pace of looking that art fairs demand, but they can be distracting. I would much rather be able to walk around an empty fair. I really love smaller fairs. . . . There is usually something to discover. Not too long ago I was at a fair with a lot of bad stuff, but Claire Oliver was there with works by Bisa Butler, who is amazing . . . so you never know. A number of years ago, I walked around an art fair with Bob and Meryl Metzler, and they kept stopping because everyone was saying hello. I said, “My God, you know everybody,” and Bob said, “Yeah, that’s because we’re old and we’ve been doing this a long time.” Now I find myself in the same place.
SZ: I think we all end up in that place eventually, one way or another. Do your acquisitions tend to happen more through exhibitions or at art fairs?
BRD: That is tough to say. A lot happens in both environments. I generally know when I am really excited about something. I respond to objects quickly, but I also like to think about things There can be a pressure at art fairs that does not allow that process to occur, so I have lost out on things over the years.
SZ: Does anything immediately come to mind . . . the one that got away?
BRD: There are so many, but the first things that pop in my mind are early drawings by Ed Ruscha and, later, Bridget Riley that I could have had for next to nothing when they were first on the market, but were sold by the time I made up my mind.
SZ: Do you have any thoughts about how younger artists are priced these day? When I first entered the art world, a price point between $25,000 and $50,000 was considered “midcareer” territory, but now it is not uncommon to see “hot” emerging artists with a price point in that range and above. Is that dangerous?
BRD: That’s hard to say. That is why I like to find artists early, because at some point I definitely think “hmmmm.” There are some artists I will pay a little more for. For example, I acquired an Arcmanoro Niles painting early on, but then I ended up paying substantially more for another one not long after that. There are definitely times when the pricing gets really crazy. . . . I bought an Amy Sherald painting for $30,000, and now I think they are $350,000 . . . and there are many more examples of that type of thing. I think that dealers have to carefully advise their artists, and they need to work together and keep things in a reasonable area. I think it’s more important to place work in the right collections, and that it be accessible. Then, of course, there is the secondary market, and dealers don’t have much control over that.
SZ: I guess that heat is heat and it tends to focus on certain artists in certain defined moments. You mentioned two much lauded African American artists, which is one part of the art market that is seeing a lot of attention, and then, of course, there is a lot of focus on female painters and a sort of quasi-surreal imagery, à la Nicole Eisenman, right now. . . . I am thinking of Julie Curtiss, Robin F Williams, Emily Mae Smith, and others. Do you find that your collecting habits are affected by trends?
BRD: No, not particularly. I have always collected a wide range of work—in terms of painting, both representational and abstract work. I have always collected work by African American artists and women. It’s all about what I like. At some point, my stepmother decided that she was getting rid of all of her figurative works and was just doing abstract. She got rid of some really good stuff. . . . I thought it was crazy.
SZ: You obviously trust your own gut, but I am curious if there is anyone who can influence you with regard to an acquisition—can they talk you into or out of buying something?
BRD: I have never had a consultant, but sure, I can be influenced by the right people. A number of years ago I ran into a private dealer I trust at an art fair and he told me that the sleeper of the fair was a painting by Allen Ruppersberg. I had never heard of Allen at the time, but I ran over, and there was this amazing painting, and I thought, “Oh, God, this would be great for the Whitney!” I had the work placed on hold and quickly found a Whitney curator and contacted some board members. . . and we collectively acquired it for the museum. A similar thing happened at another fair when Donna De Salvo introduced me to Adrian Piper’s work, and I ended up buying it for the Whitney.
SZ: Those are great stories. Let’s talk a bit about The Bunker [a private art space in West Palm Beach, Florida, housing Beth Rudin DeWoody’s art collection]. How did that space come to be?
BRD: My collection has become massive over the years, and I have no interest in things just sitting in a warehouse. I don’t look at The Bunker as being a museum. . . . In the end, much of the collection will be donated to museums and my family. I have always actively loaned work from my collection because I believe it should be out there and shared. The Bunker allows the collection to be seen by many and, by working with amazing curators, we can contextualize it in different ways.
SZ: It must be great to see exhibitions drawn from this wealth of material, collected over so many years, organized by other people. I would imagine you discover something about yourself and your collecting habits at the same time.
BRD: Yes, it is incredible. There was a point in collecting when I began to see certain patterns and themes in my collection. That is when I began curating shows, which I continue to do. There have also been a number of exhibitions drawn from my collection over the years, which I love.
SZ: Lastly, Beth, what would you say to individuals who are just beginning to collect?
BRD: There are many different motivations to becoming a collector. Some people collect solely for investment and only look for trophy works. I am simply addicted to art. Take in as much information as you can. . . . Visit exhibitions and art fairs, and learn. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Go to places like the Affordable Art Fair and smaller galleries. I know so may people who only go to the larger galleries. They are missing a lot. Starting a collection can be intimidating, and many people feel that they simply can’t afford to, but the truth is you can find good things for $100 if you put in the work. It is a rewarding activity. . . . Art is important. . . . It connects the world.
Header Photo:
Beth Rudin DeWoody in front of Moon River and Canoe House, Yann Gerstberger, 2017.
Photography by Jerry Rabinowitz
